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The Chip Board Archive 03

Re: Two Wrongs
In Response To: Re: Two Wrongs ()

Peter. I guess I need to express myself more clearly. I was not defending this buyer, or suggesting that Robert had no recourse. All I said was that what he threatened to do was prohibited by the user agreement he electronically "signed" when he registered at eBay. It's the pits, but it's the way it is, it's the rules.

Here's a segment from eBay's User Agreement:

5.5 Manipulation. Neither bidders nor sellers may manipulate the price of any item nor may you interfere with other user's listings or auctions.

I have known a couple of sellers who have been royally screwed by buyers, and emailed fellow sellers to warn them off this psycho bidder. The bidder found out, complained to eBay, and the sellers were NARU'd (not a registered user)immediately. One was suspended for 30 days, the other was permanently suspended when he freaked out and started sending threatening (in the legal sense) emails to eBay. He was righteously indignant, but he was also banned for life from buying or selling on eBay.

I have also seen buyers NARU'd for trying to warn other buyers about a seller who they felt was dishonest. While I know they felt justified in what they did, and many of us would want to come to their defense, they were booted because what they did is specifically prohibited in the user agreement.

When I said that "Most disputes are simple misunderstandings", I meant in the eBay administrative oversight context. Of all the thousands of email complaints that eBay receives, only a tiny fraction result in a suspension. They are usually questions of "handling fees", condition and grading, who should have paid for insurance for lost or damaged items, etc. etc. etc. An even smaller number of these complaints ever result in criminal or mail fraud charges being filed. That's what I meant by "misunderstandings". Misunderstandings, as opposed to fraudulent or criminal activities. Therefore, eBay cannot allow, as a matter of policy, users to interfere with each other's legitimate auction activities. Hence, the policy is what it is, and I didn't see anybody else pointing out to Robert that what he threatened to do was grounds for suspension.

And I must say I'm glad that the policy is the way it is. I've said in another thread that I do what I consider to be a high volume of business on eBay, and have done so with an essentially perfect record. If the woman who left me my only negative feedback had been free to do as Peter wanted to do, she may have ruined my reputation before I had even developed one! Or, heaven forbid, a member of this board who has never done business with me may take offense at my use of the adjective "rare", and decide to email all my bidders, past and present, and "warn" them that my auction descriptions and business practices are not to be trusted!

I do believe in "do unto others", which is why I posted to Peter's thread. If someone saw me threatening to do something that was against the rules, I would hope they would warn me as I warned Robert. However, that does not mean that I would sabotage my own eBay business by committing a suspendible offense. If you told me your home had been robbed and you knew who did it, I would not help you go find the guy and rough him up, but I would help you call the police. Like I said, Two Wrongs Don't Make a Right, and emailing the bidders of a seller's auctions in an attempt to hinder their ability to do business is wrong. I believe it's called vigilantism.

Peter, you said "I believe that regardless of Ebay's rules, IT IS A MOARL IMPERATIVE TO TRY TO PROTECT OTHERS FROM THE SELLER'S DISHONESTY."

Obviously, you think the rules don't apply to you. Fine. I think it's great that you feel bad for Robert, and I think it's somewhat commendable that you feel so strongly that you would risk your standing on eBay to try to "warn" others, but I think it's very very dangerous thing to advise readers of this thread to do the same. If you want to get yourself booted for life from eBay, that's your decision. Before you suggest, by your example, that others do the same, make damn sure you know what you're doing.

If a seller abuses my trust, I will leave him negative feedback, and hope that people have enough sense to view his feedback and study it before bidding. If I have specific, provable knowledge that a seller is a crook, I will do my best to get him suspended from eBay. If you ask me before bidding about a seller that I know to be a crook or a borderline operator, I will tell you exactly how I feel about him. But if I see that you've bid on one of his auctions I will not email you to warn you to consider withdrawing your bid, as much as I may want to, or you may want me to.

Good luck to you, Peter, and I hope you never feel injured enough in an eBay transaction to add a self inflicted lifetime suspension to the list of harms a disreputable buyer or seller has done to you.

Messages In This Thread

Missing Chip Ethics Reverse Scenario
Re: Missing Chip Ethics Reverse Scenario
Re: Missing Chip Ethics Reverse Scenario
Two Wrongs
Re: Two Wrongs
Re: Two Wrongs
Robert - WHO WAS THE PERSON???
Re: Robert - WHO WAS THE PERSON???
Re: Robert - WHO WAS THE PERSON???
Another Warning
Greg We Need Help! Expose the Crooks
Re: Greg We Need Help! Expose the Crooks
Re: Greg We Need Help! Expose the Crooks
Re: Two Wrongs
Can you give me the shorten version (vbg) EOM
Not two wrongs, Michael ...
Re: Not two wrongs, Michael ...
Re: Not two wrongs, Michael ...
Re: Not two wrongs, Michael ...
Re: Two Wrongs
Re: Two Wrongs
Re: Two Wrongs
Re: Two Wrongs - A RARE Error on my part
Re: Two Wrongs - A RARE Error on my part
Re: Two Wrongs
Ebay is gutless ...
I should clarify one point ...
Re: I should clarify one point ...
Re: Ebay is gutless ...
Re: THE OTHER SIDE OF GUTLESS eBAY...

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