Jimbo; Nice to see that you took time out this morning before taking your nap and are reading and responding to the bb posts once more. <gg> Forgive me for not responding sooner, but I've just returned from my usual weekend in A.C. and am just now catching up on over 250 bb posts made since I left on Saturday morning.

I see the thread got a little bit off the beaten path... from chips to beanie babies. However, I would venture to say that when the retail stores got their supplies of beanie babies in for sale to the public.... that certain people were notified by store employees, in advance, when they would be available for sale; "Come and get 'em." These privileged few also were offered the opportunity to purchase in larger quantities than the average customer who had no inside contacts. I know the same thing happened with Pokemon cards as well. When the average Joe/Jane got the word, they were all sold out on many occassions. Same thing happens in the chip world. Is it fair? What's fair in life?

Jim; You asked for my opinion, about the "artificial market" being developed. Here are my thoughts for your consideration. I just wonder to what extent chip collectors are driving up the price of these "tougher" chip new issues? For the purpose of this discussion, let's not call this $25 "Cure" issue a chip. Let's simply call it a "$25 Hard Rock collectible". Is it the Hard Rock collectible collectors who are also demanding this item, thereby contributing to the increased "value" (real or imagined)? Or, is it the "greedy" dealer? If the customer wouldn't pay the price asked by the "greedy" dealer .... where's the problem?

Jim, when new Hard Rock Cafe outlets open all across the planet, the employees who started on Day One of the grand opening are presented with "Staff Pins"... of which maybe only a hundred or so are made. Are you aware that these limited numbers of staff pins sell for hundreds of dollars each to pin collectors? If several hundred chip collectors also collected Hard Rock Cafe pins, these same Hard Rock pins might sell for a thousand dollars because of the increased demand by chip collectors. I don't think that we chip collectors would see the same dramatic increase in prices if it was Fiesta Casino for example that issued a "Cure" chip. I believe that chip collectors must come to grips with the fact that they are competing with a whole different group of collectors when these relatively small numbers of Hard Rock chips are released. It's not just chip collectors who are attempting to put one of these $25 Cure chips in their collections.... or the Cinco De Mayo issue.

Regarding my suggestion to write to Hard Rock management .... many new comers to this hobby may not realize the potential clout we posses as a group if utilized properly. As you and many others know, we as a group have written letters before .... with limited success. We may not have gotten all that we've asked for... but just imagine if NO protest at all had not been lodged with respect to a few past occassions. Bob Pardue I believe it was, asked, "what good would that (writing) do? They (Hard Rock management)are the ones who had some chips set aside for them" .... or something to that effect. That may be true to an extent, and that probably happens with any casino property, but I don't think that the upper management of any corporation likes to hear about any public bad-mouthing regarding distribution of their product; Hard Rock notwithstanding. Maybe hard copies of all the negative bb postings sent to the right corporation officer(s) would have an impact for future issues. I'm not talking about sending letters of protests to the guy who came from Trop to Hard Rock and brought his chip-issuing policy with him. In my opinion, he is not a policy maker for the corporation and he can be over-ruled in a hurry if negative public sentiment against the corporation is made aware to the powers that be. I don't think it would take hundreds of letters, either. A couple dozen letters would probably have a considerable impact. These corporations understand that one letter represents the thoughts and opinions of many many more silent customers who wouldn't take the time to write. I don't think that anyone is objecting to the LE issue per se. The objection is the extremely restricted amount of product produced of this LE that is causing so much angst among collectors.... and that should be the message to Hard Rock's upper management.

Jim; Let me ask you a question: What, in your opinion, would be the rarest Las Vegas chip you can think of right now .... and how much would one cost to purchase on today's market if it were available? Several thousand dollars? Rene claims to have sold a couple of individual chips in the six to eight thousand dollar range. (I hope that's what he reported to the IRS, now that he's made it public) Now, suppose Jim Perlowski discovered a box of 100 of these same chips next week. No, let's not use Jim Perlowski as the finder. Let's say Jimmy's Chip Shop in Las Vegas found them (no relation to Jim Perlowski)..

Certainly the price would drop dramatically, but I'll bet the chip would still sell for several hundred dollars; no? Maybe still in the high end several hundred to a thousand dollars? Why wouldn't the same logic apply for a very limited chip (collectible)that is also coveted by Hard Rock memorabilia collectors ...... which sells for hundreds of dollars also? Perhaps the current asking price of $400 IS too high. Maybe, it's too low. I don't know. Buyers always determine price, not sellers. If there's no market, the price drops. If there is lots of unsatisfied demand, the price rises. Are there any sellers at $200-$250? Andy Huges said he paid $150 for his. Maybe that's where it will level off ...as Doc Myers has indicated it will be valued in TCR 7.

As for Rene's reply to Dick Brach and his comparison to the Atlantic City Will Espin chip.... I would like to remind Rene that there was not an arbitrary price put on that chip. The BUYERS determined the price. I put the first one up on Ebay with a $50 minimum opening bid and was promptly criticized for doing so.... that $50 was too high an opening bid. The chip sold for over $100, with many bidders interested in it at over $50. I offered the 20 of the 27 or so Espin chips I had available to my New Issues Subscribers at the average price they wanted to pay for it. Over 50 bidders responded. The top 20 bidders bid an average of $80 for the Espin chip. Some bids were well over the $100+ Ebay mark. The top 20 bidders got the chip for $80 each. Quite a different scenario than an abritrary price of $400 pulled out of the air. (By the way, the Espin chip is a $5 chip ... one of the most popular denominations collected .... not a $25 chip of which there are considerably less collectors.) It would be interesting to know how many Cure chips have been actually SOLD at $400 each. Asking price is one thing.... how many were sold at the asking price is a different matter. Perhaps we are making a big to-do about nothing.....

The bottom line is that obviously, this is a premium chip, as far as present value goes. If anyone thinks they are going to get one for less than $100 in the near future, I don't believe that will happen.