Thanks Jim, that helps explain the difference. I might add that if someone starts with the hypothetical $380 that someone else mentioned, there's no law that says they aren't going to bet 38 times and never hit a winner! Tapped out, Nada, Zippo...

I had a friend that played a "system" (as all systems, I know it's flawed, but people like to dream they can somehow beat the odds or probability <G>) he would watch the wheel and track the odd/even, black/red, and high/low. If anything came up three times in a row, he would bet the other way.

The flaw is that people think one spin is somehow related to another. Every spin of the wheel is independent of every other, previous or future! So playing a streak or playing against the trend, doesn't make any sense... or any difference.

I love to just watch the electronic boards that some of the casinos have at roulette tables. You can see past treands (which are usless) but also see the streaks and patterns. Ever see one of these with 12 in a row Red? What's the change on the next spin, it will come up black, rather than red? (the same as the first spin. It never changes.)

I need to add that knowing all this math, odds and whatever else, will not make someone a winner. However it will help prevent making errors and losing even faster.

Now the last question. Since it's been pointed out and we all agree, the five number bet stinks, so avoid it. Others have stated there are other bets on the layout that are not -5.26%. If anyone knows any bet, combination of bets (forget the five number please) that is not the same as every other bet on the roulette table, please write a note. My answer if, there is none. That's what makes roulette entertaining and simple. You can't go wrong, and you don't have to get into counting or loads of math.

"Ya pays your money and ya take your chances" <G>