... to some points:

>> NOW.... is the "good time" you are speaking about to "revisit the issues" for the 2001 club auction. <<

Although I agree that waiting until the last minute is not a good idea, it is almost certainly too early to be concerned with the 2001 auction. The club officers and auction volunteers have enough to do getting ready for this year's auction without having to deal with next year's. Still plenty of time after the convention to address what changes, if any, should be made in the auction format.

>> WHO is charged with "revisiting" these issues? This bb doesn't set rules and policies. Send your comments and suggestions to the Board Members. <<

Of course, at the appropriate time.

>> This debate on this bb is an excercize in futility. <<

Usually, Archie, I agree with your opinions on club matters. But, I couldn't disagree more on this point. As I mentioned in another post tonight, the debate here can clarify issues, clear up misunderstandings, motivate action and, perhaps, even resolve problems without the need of going to the board. Not everyone necessarily enjoys these long, contentious threads, but at least some of them actually serve a useful purpose. Furthermore, the regulars here are among the most active members of the club and therefore most likely to act on good suggestions (e.g., the convention poker tournament last year).

>> We just went through long debates on shill bidding .... and we came to THE (originator's) POINT that it was all about the club auction..... which is not how the theme started as perceived by the many contributors to the thread. <<

Well, as the originator who was making THE POINT, I'll repeat what I told you privately, Archie. The club auction was NOT what the point was about. And I'll repeat the three paragraphs that state what the point WAS about:

>>>> So, now, how does it look for a significant number of our club members
>> to excoriate others for using shill bidders, or to vehemently denigrate the
>> use of seller or shill bidding (or even to characterize the use of such
>> bidding as "unethical", "deceptive", "fraudulent", "theft" or "stealing")
>> when our own club permits it at the biggest single chip auction of the year,
>> an event which some consider the highlight of the convention?

>>>> And how does it look that we know so little about our club's own rules
>> that such a large percentage of us apparently don't realize that the club
>> permits the very conduct which we are publicly (and in some cases
>> vehemently) criticizing?

>>>> Please read this carefully: I am NOT criticizing Bruce Landau or the
>> club auction rules (I have stated already, and clearly enough, I hope) that
>> I see nothing wrong with the use of seller protection or shill bids if they
>> are permitted by the auction venue. The club has chosen to permit
>> them & I have no problem with that. <<

Well, hardly anyone got the point and most of the responsive comments were about the club auction (though at least one complained that the poster thought the thread was about shilling and was disappointed that the point wasn't about shilling -- which it most certainly was).

And, of course, there appears to have been a whole OTHER festering issue related to the club auction of which I was completely unaware and which has overwhelmed my original point. I'm not going to respond on that any further now, but do think the issue is worth revisiting after this year's convention.

No need to apologize for a long post, Archie. At least not to me! <g>

----- jim o\-S