... on the issue of: What is the real difference between use of a hidden reserve and use of a shill bidder?

Here's how the bidding goes with a hidden reserve of $20:

Billy Bobb bids $1 and gets a message that he hasn't met the reserve (that is, he hasn't reached the level at which Suzie is truly willing to sell). So, he bids $5 and gets the same message. Then he bids $15 and gets it again. Finally, he bids $20 and, voila, he has met the reserve. If no one outbids him, he wins the auction.

Here's how the bidding goes with a shill bidder:

Billy Bobb bids $1. Suzie or the shill bids $4 (in effect, telling Billy Bobb that he hasn't reached the level at which Suzie is truly willing to sell). Billy Bobb bids $5. Suzie/the shill bids $9. Billy Bobb bids $10. Suzie/the shill bids $14. Billy Bobb bids $15. Suzie/the shill bids $19. Billy Bobb bids $20. The shill stops bidding. If no one outbids Billy Bobb, he wins the auction.

As I mentioned in my response to Michael Richter (a point I hadn't realized myself until I wrote that response), the reserve price in essence serves as an AUTOMATIC shill bill for the seller against every bid that is below the reserve price.

What is the REAL DIFFERENCE between these two scenarios?

How is Billy Bobb deceived by the shill bidding and not by the reserve?

How is Billy Bobb harmed by the shill bidding and not by the reserve?

This is not just a semantical discussion -- I'm looking for real world, practical answers to these questions. ----- jim o\-S