I would feel the same way in that situation, Pete. It is a shady and cloudy area. The Barris and Roth chips were not made to be casino chips either but there was no intent to deceive collectors. I believe that Karrol had the chips made to deceive in the same manner that Borland did. I see no difference in the Pai Gai's and some of the chips that BB made. There are no hard and fast rules yet, but our club is working on a project to define the good & evil of these situations. Even then, we will not all agree as to what is right and what is wrong for our hobby. It's a sticky mess.