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The Chip Board Archive 13

Re: Another hypothetical Scenario

Dealing with this all as a hypothetical and not injecting any experienced LEGAL opinion. (I am not an attorney and don't pretend to be). Just for the sake of debate and such,

This scenario starts off a little different than the first one.

First, A didn't seem to represent the chip as anything. There might be info missing. Ie., when A sold to B, what sales pitches were made. Did he/she suggest the possiblity of repairing the chip and filling the cancellation....?

Here you have a possible liability of the repair person, (Party C) in that he/she is repairing a defect that was intentionally put there as a control to prevent fraud. If as the last part of the post said, Prty C, does this frequently and has done many, he/she should know that the cancellation is an intentional control and that repairing it might lead to an incorrect or fraudulant representation of the authenticity of the chip. Unlike the issue with the seemstress who was repairing a piece of merchandise that was unintentionally defective. To repair a blouse that is torn and missing buttons would not be the same as removing the markings from a canceled deck of cards or a cancelled or drilled chip.

The later could be a participation in a fraud if that repaired chip later gets represented in a wrongful or fraudulant way.

You should have another party here but I will put it B-1 and B-2. B-1 should have left alone and not altered the cancellation. While she didn't committ fraud, her actions lead to the possiblity for a later fraud. Thus some liability. B-2 might be able to be considered ignorant. While probably still liable would be able to hold Party C and the estate of B-1 responsible as they engaged in an act that led for the innacurate valuation of the chip.

Party D. might have some liability also. Auction houses should have a responsibility to seek out a proper and professional appraisal of property before they value and list them. They could, possibly, hold their appraiser responsible for their damaages.

Party E, might be able to escape some responsibility. If I were Party E, I would, If legally possible, try and join Party H in the suit against others. Both of these buyers bought based on other representations that should have the confidence to be correct. If party E has any liability, it would be that he/she didn't independantly authenticate the chip before relisting it. Buyer beware. If you buy something on one of the Auction Websites, recognize the possibility that you aren't getting what you think. Before retrading an item. Cover your butt and get an independant valuation and authentication. You would probably be held responsible.

Party F, is a reference book and didn't represent the specific chip as anything. Unless information in that book is incorrect and could be judged to have led to a misvaluation or misidentification of the chip. I, as a layman, of course, wouldn't see a liability. Party G, the second auction service, should have similar liability as party D. While not as in control as D, as they didn't have possession of the merchandise and thus no control of it's listing.... The auction lister (Party E) has that responsibility but the auction website might be seen as having some liability for policing such situations. Some info might be needed here. Were they notified by other collectors that this auction was fraudulant or based on missunderstandings of the authenticity. Were there complaints about the seller in the past.... Did the auction website do any reasonable action to follow up on concerns or complaints.... In any case, if held responsible, Party G might come back at E also, even if he/she was innocently incorrect with their representations. Thus sparking another lawsuit on the matter. Party E against other previous parties.

some possible match ups,

H v. A-E
G v. E
E v. A-D
D v. their appraiser
B2 v. B-1(estate) and C.
...

Messages In This Thread

A Scenario for Fraud
Re: A Scenario for Fraud
Re: A Scenario for Fraud
"Which parties are guilty of committing fraud?"
Re: "Which parties are guilty of committing fraud?
Re: "Which parties are guilty of committing fraud?
Re: "Which parties are guilty of committing fraud?
Re: serving on any jury
Re: "Which parties are guilty of committing fraud?
I agree only E for fraud
Re: "Which parties are guilty of committing fraud?
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Re: A Scenario for Fraud
Re: A Scenario for Fraud
Ooops
Re: Ooops
So, your telling me that the Princess Di T Shirt
Re: So, your telling me that the Princess Di T Shi
Re: Another hypothetical Scenario
Re: Another hypothetical Scenario
Re: Another hypothetical Scenario
Re: Another hypothetical Scenario
Or is it because they are
Re: Another hypothetical Scenario
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Re: You guys are not getting ....
Re: Another hypothetical Scenario
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Fraud
Does anyone have a cite for the HPA?
Here's a link...
Thank you Mark
Addtional info links ...
Re: Fraud
I'm pretty certain the HPA does not ...
Re: It's not clear one way or the other
It's quite clear the terms "coinage" and "issue"
Re: It's quite clear the terms "coinage" and "issu
Re: It's quite clear the terms "coinage" and "issu
Re: It's quite clear the terms "coinage" and "issu
I would say no to #1 and unsure to #2
Re: I would say no to #1 and unsure to #2
Archie, can you show us where the FTC ...
Re: Nope ... sorry I can't ...
I couldn't find it on the club board, either.
Re: I couldn't find it on the club board, either.
Re: I couldn't find it on the club board, either.
Didn't it mention "Hobby Protection Act" John?
Re: Didn't it mention "Hobby Protection Act" John?
Re: Didn't it mention "Hobby Protection Act" John?
Please read this and rethink your previous post
Re: Please read this and rethink your previous pos
See §2101... it says it all
Re: See §2101... it says it all
No question about it
Re: No question about it
rofl So you mean that ... rofl
Re: No question about it
Re: No question about it
Re: No question about it
Casino Chips as Trade Tokens
Re: Casino Chips as Trade Tokens
Re: Casino Chips as Trade Tokens
Re: Casino Chips as Trade Tokens
Nope. "Trade Tokens" are not part of a coinage.
Webster's defines "commerce" well.
Re: Webster's defines "commerce" well.
I will check it tomorrow...
"Commerce" as defined in Black's Law Dictionary
Re: "Commerce" as defined in Black's Law Dictionar
For those interested...
Strange
Re: For those interested...
I believe you will find that is up to
Re: I believe you will find that is up to
Spot on. I can say no more grin
The HPA is a federal law
Correct. Its like a lucky dip grin
Re: Fraud
We won't know until it hits the courts
Re: Fraud
Re: Fraud
Re: Fraud
Re: Fraud
Re: Fraud
Re: Fraud
Re: Fraud
I have no idea what you are arguing
Re: I have no idea what you are arguing
There we go! That's what I was looking for.
Re: There we go! That's what I was looking for.
Me too!
Re: I have no idea what you are arguing
Re: Hey David MI 5 Wants..
Re: Hey David MI 5 Wants..
Re: I have no idea what you are arguing
Re: I have no idea what you are arguing
Your research is flawed.
Re: Your research is flawed.
Re: TOKENS ...
A/C was not lone ranger on Susan B dollars...
I don't collect Lone Ranger tokens ... grin
Re: A Scenario for Fraud
Re: A Scenario for Fraud
Re: A Scenario for Fraud
Re: A Scenario for Fraud
You guys lost me about 2 threads into this....
Re: You guys lost me about 2 threads into this....
OK - Lets try again - revised scenario
Aaron?
David??
Uncle Tom Cobley??
Michael??
Archie??
Re: Archie??
Yup, its there
Re: A Scenario for Fraud
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Re: Chips/Coins
Re: Chips/Coins
Re: HPA covers chips
Re: HPA covers chips
Re: A Scenario for Fraud
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Wow!
Re: Wow!
Re: This forum is not a "Chat Room"
Re: A Scenario for Fraud
Re: A Scenario for Fraud
Re: A Scenario for Fraud
Black's Law Dictionary definition of "Fraud"
Re: Black's Law Dictionary definition of "Fraud"
Re: Black's Law Dictionary definition of "Fraud"

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