As a chip dealer who buys and sells chips via mail-order for several years now, I think that your characterization of the non on-line collector as being "an uneducated buyer" is not an accurate portrayal. Many internet buyers who ARE on-line sometimes pay outrageously high prices for their ebay purchases. But I presume, by your portrayal; they could be considered "educated buyers". If so, that's an elitist postion to take.

I understand your point, Archie, but I don’t agree with it and I’ll stick by my original post relating to that issue. You can’t learn if you don’t go to class, but even some of those that do go don’t learn a hell of a lot. Information is power, Archie, and lack of information about the auction marketplace, like it or not, puts one into the category of being an uneducated buyer. I don’t see what there is in that statement that is disputable.

Certainly some internet buyers pay ridiculous prices on occasion, I’ve seen quite a bit of that recently, too. But then, that just goes to show that education don’t come cheap… and you gotta stay awake in class.

Several of my customers who ARE also on-line simply do not have the time, nor interest, to regularly follow ebay chip offerings and have provided me with their want list for chips ... as is the case with most other reputable chip dealers. If ebay is the final word on chip values, who would pay retail prices at dealer tables at chip shows held around the country ... (other than for scarce or hard to find chips)? They would simply wait for the chip to come up on ebay.

First off, I can’t ever remember anyone saying that eBay is the final word on chip values, I merely stated that 160,000 auctions per year should not be ignored… it is you who consistently claims that it shouldn’t be a factor.

Now, as far as your chip show example is concerned, how about a scenario. Let’s suppose I have a chip that consistently sells for about $30 on eBay, lots of auctions and pretty consistent pricing. At a show, a dealer has it marked at the “retail” (ie: book) price of $75. A buyer walks up and buys the chip. What should we then surmise about the buyer and what should we surmise about the value of the chip?

Here’s what I think: I think the buyer is uneducated. Period. Would you pay sticker price for a car without doing some research? Hopefully not. If you do, I would consider you an uneducated car buyer. Further, if I buy a car with a sticker price of $40,000 and negotiate a deal for $33,000 for it, what is the “real value” of the car? I’ll tell you with surety that it’s not the $40,000 “retail”. Works the same way with chips, in my opinion, only on a smaller scale, of course. The uneducated sticker-price buyer has paid retail and his missing class has cost him $7,000 here.

As far as the chip is concerned, it’s a little more complicated than the car example. Is the chip worth $75 because the book says it is? That sounds backward to me. What if the same chip was marked for $250 at a dealer’s table and somebody walked up and made a “great deal” to buy it for $200. Is the book value then too low or too high? What if there’s a find and the “off-line” guys don’t receive that piece of education? Chipping is a very internet-centric business, in my opinion (unless your last name is Saito, of course), and transactions with those who don’t follow the market should just not be the basis of chip valuation. And this works in both directions, of course. The uneducated people who are paying $45 for a current Four Queens $1 chip or $75 for a $25 Dunes golf course shouldn’t have an effect on the value calculations. The auction participants who are consistently bidding the above chip up to $30 and stopping, should be a part. I do understand the current system that the authors use to determine values. I’m just saying that there’s more involved now than just the dealer retail transactions.

Can bargains be had on ebay? You bet..., all the time. Bargains can also be found which do not regularly appear on ebay, at chip dealer tables. For the most part, it is my humble opinion that ebay frequently serves as a dumping ground for some people who have no other outlet to sell or unload their duplicate chips... and there's nothing wrong with that. Everybody loves a bargain. Tougher chips in top condition, with lots of bidding competition, don't usually go very cheap.

Couldn’t agree more.

One closing note about ebay. It has been my personal observation that many of the better chips that sell for way below retail prices are for chips that are not in top condition. Frequently I see references to what low price such and such a chip went for on ebay ... but failed to note the condition of the chip sold. I note that your filter statistics does not address condition; or excuse the term ... "rarity". May I ask how many of the 4000+ chips in your study are more commonly available LE's or current rack chips?

You are, of course, correct in that many people cite auction results without noting condition. Lousy note takers, in my opinion. Condition is a very important factor and I try to note it whenever I feel it impacts the result of an auction in one way or another.

Now, unfortunately my filter cannot address condition nor separate out the LE’s and current rack chips. (I wish it could because that’s not what I’m personally interested in buying). Clearly the great majority of chips are LE’s or current rack chips or, worse yet, that fake commemorative crap, but there are some sellers (like James, Les, and Bill) that consistently have a good supply of obsoletes for sale who are the core of that market on eBay. If you add in some of the other good but sporadic obsoletes sellers, I still think that market is very healthy on eBay.

With regard to “rarity”, I have to tell you that it’s a mystery to me. There are some “K” level chips that appear weekly on eBay, and some “F” level chips that I’ve never seen… either on eBay or in a dealer’s binder. One of the education points, however, involves how often a chip comes up for auction. If it’s a “$75 chip” that normally sells for $30 and is up often, I’ll buy it around $30 if I’m interested in the chip. If it’s one that only shows up once in a blue moon and I can’t locate one with a dealer, I’ll happily bid over “book value” if it’s one I’m looking for.

It's all about education.