"I can't speak for Bob, but on behalf of myself I would gladly turn down Social Security, if the "American Labor Movement" would be kind enough to immediately return to me all the money which I paid into the the system and factor in the half my employers have paid in because those payments reduce their money available to pay to me as a salary.

Pete; That's very easy for you to say and post Peter. However, I noticed that you qualified your statement with a BIG unreasonable "IF". Understanding that the wishful scenario you have presented is not real-world, I'm sure that many retirees would disagree with you.

Hell, "IF" I were a wealthy person, I could "SAY" that I would give up the jackpot I just won or the state lottery and donate it to the poor.... or donate it to the CC & GTCC Building Fund.

You may also be interested in having the taxes you paid for the defense of this nation returned to you as well. Or, the taxes you've paid that have gone towards educating our children in the public schools (in the event you have no children of your own.) I don't know that to be a fact in your case, but there are lots of taxpayers who take that position.

Lots of unpopular government programs take our tax money. Just like being a proud union member, and as a proud American, I paid my dues willingly and I pay my fair share of taxes equally as willing. We don't pick and choose which taxes we pay willingly and which ones we pay that are mandatory.

I've likened my dues payments to Local 827, IBEW,AFL/CIO for 38 years as an investment... or as an insurance policy. You may look upon it as something else. To not take advantage in the way of benefits of what I've contributed to in the way of dues over all those years is like not putting in a claim on one's insurance policy after having an auto accident of suffering a fire in one's home.

Those who wish not to be associated with unions, is their right. When unions are formed and the majority of workers vote to certify a union as their sole bargaining agent.... the majority rules. Everyone knows that going in. Don't want a union on your property ...? The solution is simple... employees shouldn't vote for certification. However, once the union is certified, the elected union officers become the sole representative of the employees. They represent ALL employees ... not just the ones who voted for certification.... and ALL employees benefit from the wages, working conditions, grievance procedure, and terms of employment that are outlined in the contract that was negotiated on their behalf.

As for the teacher example that Bob would like me to attack .... let me just say that most of us choose where we want to work. If one prefers to be a teacher rather than a truck driver, who am I to say that they should be something else that pays more money? It's their decision. Maybe the teacher wants to enjoy the summer months off ... or doesn't like working outside in the elements ... or being away from home for long periods of time. I don't know. I know of individuals with college degrees who are working in the casinos as dealers. I also know of former casino employees who are now teachers. (So much for the sheepskin argument.) If you enjoy what you are doing for a living, then that satisfaction is worth more than how much money one makes.

**Most teachers I have spoken to wouldn't want to swap jobs with most blue collar workers ... some of whom make more money than teachers do ... so your argument is a flawed one. I can think of many other professionals that should be paid more money than they presently are. Nurses and housewives or homemakers as an example immediately comes to mind ... and they don't have a teachers union to protect them.

(**No offense or disrespect is intended to those who have chosen their respective paths of vocation .... professional or otherwise.)