... then the rules aren't as clear as you'd like to think.

Did I quote eBay inaccurately?

What does the phrase "Your bid is a contract" mean?

In general contract law, once an offer has been made and accepted in the required form, a contract exists. It cannot thereafter be unilaterally withdrawn. The entirety of the eBay statement implies that the ONLY condition necessary to completion of the bidding contract is the expiration of the auction, at which time the higher bidder's offer becomes the final contract.

Obviously, the lesser bidders would not expect to have a completed contract. There is, however, nothing in the bidding notice which suggests that the seller can cancel the bids and withdraw the auction. There is no way for bidders to know, without going into the rules for sellers (which most bidders are not going to bother doing) that sellers can cancel an auction for any (or no) reason at all.

>> IN THIS REGARD, Jim,referring to having no rights to force a seller to
>> complete an auction that he's started! A bidder has no such right.

My point exactly. And that's why the rules suck.

>> You are entitled to your opinion of the rules. You are not entitled to
>> criticise someone for knowing what the rules are.

I don't recall criticizing anyone for "knowing what the rules are". If you can point out where I did so, I'll apologize to that person.

Furthermore, I did not say there could NEVER be a good reason for a seller cancelling an auction. My comment that the rules suck was limited to the situation we were discussing (cancelling an auction because the seller received a better offer outside the auction).

The two examples you gave describe situations in which cancelling the auction would be appropriate and nothing I have said can be taken to suggest otherwise. I never said the rules should prohibit a seller from ever cancelling an auction. In suggesting that I did, you are using yet another common legal argument tactic (which we call the "straw man" argument; that is, you set up a straw man [false premise] and then knock it down).

>> do you think bidders should ever be allowed to withdraw bids?

Of course; if a bidder determines that the auction description is false, misleading or fraudulent, he should be able to withdraw his bid. I do NOT think a bidder should be able to withdraw his bid just because he decides he doesn't want the item or because someone else has emailed him to advise that he will sell the item at a lower price.

>> The rules were not created to ##### buyers off, they were created to do the
>> best possible job of meeting the needs of both sellers and buyers, when no
>> two situations are ever exactly alike.

I accept the proposition that the rules were not created for the purpose of #####ing off buyers. On the other hand, if you believe that the needs/desires of sellers and buyers have equal sway with eBay, you are living under a serious misapprehension of reality.

>> A seller can own an object that he knows little about, and wish to sell it
>> anyway. A seller will frequently get bids from people who know 10
>> times more about the item than he does.

Why is it not reasonable to expect such a seller to FIND OUT about the item he wishes to sell before putting up the auction, just as you would expect a bidder to find out about the item before bidding on it.

>> One guy did come down on me pretty hard though, saying essentially "how DARE
>> you list these ornaments when you don't even know what they are, what they're
>> really worth, and how to describe them properly?" So I cancelled the bids on
>> the remaining unsold items, ended the auctions early, and relisted them later
>> when I had my stuff together. I almost didn't though, I was felt so attacked
>> and stupid.

Sound like pretty reasonable questions to me. And in fact, you must have realized that they WERE reasonable questions, otherwise why cancel the bids, end the auction and relist them later when you had your "stuff together"? The person who asked these questions wasn't being "hard" on you; when you put an auction description on eBay, you are, by implication, representing to readers that you know what the hell you're talking about. If you don't, you shouldn't be putting the auction on at all. How you "felt" about this was on you, not the person writing to you.

>> A bidder can withdraw a bid without penalty (before the end of
>> an auction) if he has a decent reason to do so.

Ah, a "decent" reason! Now, what would that be? Another seller offered me the same item at a lower price? Why shouldn't the same rule apply to sellers; that is, that they can cancel bids only if they have a "decent" (whatever that is) reason for doing so?

>> If new informaiton is discovered that effects the value of an item, a bidder
>> is free to withdraw his bid. Shouldn't a seller be allowed to do the same?

Actually, eBay's rules on retracting bids say:

>> It's OK to retract a bid if...
>> You accidentally enter a wrong bid amount. For instance, you bid $99.50
>> instead of $9.95.
>> The item description of something you're bidding on has changed - a lot !
>> You cannot authenticate the seller's identity.

>> It's NOT OK to retract a bid if...
>> You change your mind about the item.
>> You decide you cant really afford it.
>> You bid a little higher than you promised yourself if you'd go.

Doesn't look to me as if it's OK to retract a bid because of new information obtained by the bidder (such as, he can get the item elsewhere at a lower price; or, the true value is less than he thought [assuming the item is accurately described in the auction]).

If you want to be an apologist for eBay, that's fine. You are just as entitled as anyone else to express your opinion here. You just shouldn't expect to find it very well received when you do. ----- jim o\-S