... but one attempt to right one wrong.

>> Like I said, Two Wrongs Don't Make a Right, and emailing the bidders of a
>> seller's auctions in an attempt to hinder their ability to do business is
>> wrong. I believe it's called vigilantism.

In my neighborhood, we call it "Community Watch". If we see someone attempting to commit a crime, we call the cops. If possible or appropriate, we also warn the intended victim.

When I contact bidders about sellers who post false, fraudulent or misleading ad descriptions, as I described in my other post in this thread, I am not doing it "in an attempt to hinder their ability to do business". I am doing it IN AN ATTEMPT TO HINDER THEIR ABILITY TO COMMIT FRAUD. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with that.

Vigilante: "a member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish
crime summarily (as when the processes of law appear inadequate)".

Note the key part of that definition: "... and punish ..." Intervening in an eBay auction by providing factual information (or even going so far as suggesting that the bidder withdraw his bid, which I don't do) could never be internet vigilantism because neither I nor any other outsider has the power to "punish", within the context of eBay's rules.

>> Peter, you said "I believe that regardless of Ebay's rules, IT IS A MOARL
>> IMPERATIVE TO TRY TO PROTECT OTHERS FROM THE SELLER'S DISHONESTY."

I agree completely with Peter's basic point (albeit, I do so very carefully, so as to run afoul of eBay's rules as little as possible while still accomplishing the desired objective).

>> Obviously, you think the rules don't apply to you. Fine.

Obviously, that comment could have been directed at me, too. <g> Of course, the "rules" apply to all of us. We just disagree here on which set of "rules" takes priority. I happen to agree with Peter that the "rules" of common morality and decency, to say nothing of the California Penal Code, supercede eBay's "rules".

>> ... I think it's somewhat commendable that you feel so strongly that you
>> would risk your standing on eBay to try to "warn" others, but I think it's
>> very very dangerous thing to advise readers of this thread to do the same. If
>> you want to get yourself booted for life from eBay, that's your decision.
>> Before you suggest, by your example, that others do the same, make damn sure
>> you know what you're doing.

I don't think Peter intended to "suggest, by (his) example" that others should run the risk of violating eBay's "rules"; nor do I, by acting as I do, intend to suggest that anyone else should do the same. On the other hand, you can be sure I know exactly what I'm doing. I have been a lawyer for nearly 25 years, I spent almost 10 years as a prosecutor in Southern California (Orange County) and then spent another 10 doing criminal defense trial work and appeals.

>> If you ask me before bidding about a seller that I know to be a crook or a
>> borderline operator, I will tell you exactly how I feel about him. But if I
>> see that you've bid on one of his auctions I will not email you to
>> warn you to consider withdrawing your bid, as much as I may want to, or you
>> may want me to.

Just a question, Michael -- how is "warning" someone BEFORE he bids any less of a "violation" of eBay's rules? Seems to me that's still an effort to "interfere with other user's listings or auctions".

The feedback system is completely inadequate to protect uninformed buyers from eBay frauds, all the more so now that you have to complete a transaction before you can post negative feedback. So, if I see a patently fraudulent ad description, I have to BUY the item (and risk not getting my money back) before I can post negative feedback about it. Let's be real about this -- the whole point of the eBay "rules" is to protect their revenues, regardless of whether their bidders are being hurt in the process.

And, if worse comes to worst, there was life before eBay and there would be life after eBay.

I mean no personal criticism of you in making these comments, Michael. If you feel more comfortable walking the straight and narrow as far as eBay is concerned, that is your prerogative and I would never suggest that you do otherwise. Also, thanks for sharing your views -- you obviously put a lot of time and effort into expressing them, which is, of course, the entire point of this BB.

BTW, I think you are underestimating your potential customer base, as described in your several posts here. I have bid on a number of your auctions and I think a lot of your material would be of interest to more experienced collectors (which I think is really the point Bob Orme was making in his post on the subject). ----- jim o\-S