... Travis. When I first came on the board here (December 1997, I think), there was a long thread on this subject. As I recall, Jim P and I had a particularly lengthy debate about the legality of "harvesting" roulettes (in fact, I think the term "harvesting" was first used as a result of that thread).

I agree with everything you said in your post. Sort of. BUT, there is one factor which clouds the issue. And it was the point I made back when: that is, the player has actually PAID for the roulette chips, almost certainly in an amount which exceeds the casino's cost of making them (except, perhaps, in a very low value game). Yes, I know there is some validity to the argument that the chips are only "rented" or "loaned" or "bailed", but the point is that this IS different than a typical theft, where the taker has given nothing of value. The taking of ashtrays, silverware, plates, towels, robes, ice machines (!!), etc., would unquestionably constitute theft. I'm not so sure about roulette chips.

After 25 years of practicing criminal law, I find it hard to get my mind around the concept that one can "steal" something for which he has paid full value and then some. Granted, Nevada has gaming regs which say ALL chips belong to the casino, but that rule, it seems to me, would apply equally to ALL chips, including roulettes.

Which leads to the other consideration which clouds the "theft" issue. Casinos routinely ENCOURAGE removal of chips other than roulettes (in fact, promote it). I don't play roulette, so am unaware whether there are special notices posted at the roulette tables regarding removal of those chips, to differentiate them from others. In the absence of such special notice, it seems to me that the casinos have given either explicit or tacit permission for removal of regular chips and therefore have also given implied consent for the removal of roulette chips, as well. Are special notices posted at each roulette table? If not, how do the casinos provide appropriate NOTICE of the distinction betweend roulettes and other chips. Absent such notice, it seems to me that making a criminal theft charge stick would be very difficult.

I personally think that if put to the test (i.e., in a jury trial), that I could obtain an acquittal of anyone charged with theft for taking roulette chips (or, at least hang the jury, even in Nevada).

All of which says nothing about what might otherwise happen to a player caught removing roulette chips (such as banishment from the casino, which is certainly within their prerogative).

Having said all this, I will also repeat something else I said back when, which is that I take no position on the issue of whether or not it is "right" to harvest roulette chips. I don't myself for the same reason Travis doesn't. Besides, I'm sure if I tried to palm a stack of roulettes, I'd probably drop them all over the floor. (Hey, maybe that's a good way to get away with one or two in the confusion! <g>) Besides, I know nothing about roulette and would be afraid to even go near a roulette table for fear of my money instantly flowing into the casino's coffers.

----- jim o\-S