... Rich: >> There is, however, a risk involved. It's not morally or ethically
right to eliminate that risk via the use of a shill bidder. <<

Why? You have stated an opinion, but given no reasoned or logic basis upon which to agree (or disagree) with that opinion.

Ethically, why should the seller bear the only risk? The buyer can cut off his risk at exactly the level at which he is willing to buy. If the bidding goes higher, he passes. Why shouldn't the seller be able to provide himself the same protection by using a shill bid?

An auction is a commercial transaction, not a game. Slightly different form than a straight out retail sale, but essentially the same thing. Seller wants a certain price; buyer is willing to pay a certain price. If they ultimately arrive at a single number which represents BOTH desired prices, what difference does it make how they got there?

BTW, your other comment:

>> For the most part, I pass over auctions by people who start an action at the price they would sell the item at a show. <<

has nothing to do with the shill bidding issue, but I just can't pass up asking whether or not you buy ANYTHING at a show at the dealer's requested price? If so, your practice of, for the most part, passing over any auction which starts at a reasonable retail price is illogical. If you want the chip and would otherwise be willing to pay retail at a show, why not bid the minimum and see if you win. If you do, you get the chip you want at the price you are willing to pay. No harm in that. [Oh, yeah -- shipping -- well, when you figure out a way to get to/from a show, enter it, stay overnight if necessary, or spend three or four days at the convention at NO COST, then shipping expenses may be a legitimate reason to pass up an auction for a chip that you otherwise want.] Personally, I have bought a number of eBay lots at the opening bids and been very happy to have the chips without having to travel all over hell and gone to get them. (Costs me no less than $1.50 each way to get to the nearest California card room and way more to get to most of them, which is to say nothing of any other state.) ----- jim o\-S